Reflections

[dizzojay]

By now, most people in the Supernatural fandom will have heard the news that Rogue Events have gone into administration.  So that's it.  Asylum conventions are no more.  It's a big blow to UK Supernatural fans and to the European convention circuit generally.

I've had time, since the news broke yesterday, to digest all the fall out, and the thing that is clearest to me in all this, is that Rogue have gone down in the manner they always existed, in utter chaos.  Their ignominious end is entirely self-inflicted.





Although the news became public knowledge yesterday, this has apparently been expected for weeks.  Those on the business side of the convention circuit, such a guests and organisers, knew that the writing was on the wall long ago, hence the disregard of Asylum 19 when planning the dates for JIB.

In truth, I think many of us suspected that Rogue was reaching the end of the road.  The first sign for me was the move from the relative comfort of the Birmingham Hilton venue to the poverty-stricken sinkhole of Blackpool.  As cost-cutting measures go, they don't get much more swingeing than that.

Since then, there have been numerous stories of guests allegedly jumping ship because their contracts hadn't been fulfilled (ie: they hadn't been paid), equipment running out and breaking down and now finally - this.  The only logical conclusion.

Now sadly, anyone who bought a ticket for Asylum 19 is out of pocket, and has almost certainly lost their money.  I don't know much about the processes when a company goes into administration, but I do know that creditors are paid out of whatever funds are available in a certain order, and as with every other walk of life, the 'little guy' is right at the bottom of the pile.  So I will keep all my paperwork, and would urge anyone else in my position to do the same because, well, you never know.

Some good that has come out of this is that other convention companies and guests are stepping up to the plate to help fans caught up in this mess.  Starfury, who may have taken over the mantle for UK Supernatural conventions, are offering a free photo op and autograph to anyone who had an A19 ticket and who books with them, another company that I have never heard of are offering free tickets to their convention.  Mark Sheppard, the only booked guest for A19 at point of Rogue's demise, has publicly called out Rogue for 'using his name to solicit fans for a convention that was never going to happen', and when Mr Sheppard talks like that, you stand well back - I don't think we've heard the last of him on this subject.  Theo Devaney (Gavin) has tweeted about arranging a get together for fans caught up in the mayhem.

So yes, out of crap, pretty flowers can grow!

From a personal point of view, I'm angry.  Not so much that I've lost my money, because I'd already - albeit reluctantly - made that decision consciously when the JIB dates were released and they clashed with A19, and I chose to go to JIB even though I already had a ticket for A19.  What I'm angry about is that fans were still being sold tickets even though by then, it was obvious that the convention was never going to take place.

I never rated Rogue as an organisation.  Their processes and procedures were dire,  You could hand over £100's of pounds and not see any proof that they'd received it for months.  I paid for my ticket to Asylum 18 in March 2016.  I got my e-ticket two days before the event in May 2017.  In between times, I didn't receive a single communication of any description acknowledging receipt of my money.

There was no phone number, and emails were never answered, so communication with Rogue was forever one-sided, and woebetide if you complained or questioned their methods.  You were barred.

Ultimately, we all put up with this crap because our love of a certain TV show and its actors overrode our misgivings about Rogue as a company, and if I'm honest, for all the crappy administration, I personally never had a problem receiving my e-ticket or photo pre-orders in time for the event, even if I did have to wait forever for them.

But, mostly I'm sad because Rogue gave me my entry into the convention world.  My first Asylum convention was 7, and I attended every one through to 18.  It's thanks to Rogue that I met many of my online friends in person for the first time, together with many other 'strangers' who have since gone on to be friends, and that alone was worth all the hassle in dealing with them ten times over.

So yes, the demise of Rogue is a kaleidoscope of emotions, but ultimately, Rogue for all their faults, have been responsible for giving me some of the most special and wonderful moments of my life.  I'm sad about the whole mess, angry with Rogue, and finding it tough to have a shred of sympathy for them, but in  a funny, slightly masochistic kind of way, I'm going to miss them!

Comments

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

That pretty much sums it up. I have enjoyed every single one of the Asylums I attended (I wouldn't have kept going if they were as crappy as some people bang on about) and made some great friends, so yes, I'm very sad they've gone down the pan. But like you say, it's no surprise...

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

We knew what to expect, and I think if you could embrace the chaos and not get stressed about it, then they were great fun events!

[loki-dip.livejournal.com]

At one point I was involved in the business side of the UK con circuit (so have posted my Rogue experiences) and they have always been a disaster. Sean Harry is really quite creepy (he tends to keep his gaze more at chest level) but the events are solid - in the early days of Rogue he used to rock up to the hotel so if you switch to Starfury you may recognise him.

According to my father who works in finance - you need to register as a creditor and then they tend to organise paying everyone as much of the debt as they can. So in theory everyone should get the same percentage. But as you say, the little guy tends not to be able to throw as much weight around as the Hilton can. Besides, they have almost always run at a loss so I suspect they don't have the money to give back. That is if there isn't a criminal investigation.

While I'm not particularly sad about it - I tended to get paid to go to cons rather than pay for them, it is an odd end of an era. And I feel really sorry for all the people who paid money in good faith and lost out.

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

I didn't start going to Asylum until no. 7, so I suspect our paths never crossed there, but despite all the madnness, I did enjoy myself at every Asylum I went to -- as Anne-Marie said, I wouldn't have kept going if I didn't. So it truly is thhe end of an era ...

Thanks for the tip, I'll have to look into what I do to at least make an attempt to get some money back - I've never been in this position before!

[loki-dip.livejournal.com]

Probably not - I never worked for Rogue as such, but I did work at Asylums 1-3. I've popped my head in at a few others for various reasons but never for long. I knew Jennie when she worked with Slique Events which was before she was involved with Rogue (I was surprised to hear she was!)

Exactly, I wouldn't have given money to Rogue because I've been expecting them to go under for 7 or 8 years now, but loads of people clearly had a good time or they wouldn't have kept buying tickets!

Always worth a try, right? I know you'd written off the money so probably not worth trying to take them to court, but if a couple of emails gets you on the list... well you never know.

[lysanatt.livejournal.com]

Do you mind if I link to this post from my Twitter? Just held a presentation on this topic on FSN 2017, and it might be of interest to the attendees.

Also, good riddance. Rogue was a crap company with crap service. Very sorry for those who lost money, though. It was always a risk with Rogue, but this is beyond their usual non-service.

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

I don't see why not - I don't think I've said anything too slanderous here!
Have I???

[lysanatt.livejournal.com]

:D Nah, and if you had, they would't have the money to sue you. (Okay, that was mean, but karma...)

I followed links so I got a few to the same effect that I posted - but thank you anyway; I think your post speaks for those of us who have been to any Rogue event (I got my ticket four days before Blackpool, except I had a family gathering to attend, but if I hadn't, I'd have been really nervous.), and it really is some kind of relief they are gone, seeing that other more professional companies take up where Rogue dropped everything.

[kinkthatwinked.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to hear this, especially in regards to the fans who may not get their money back.

It's hard to believe some other company in the European convention circuit won't pick up this ball, because that's a lot of potential revenue to just ignore. Even if the show is only on for one or two more seasons, that's one or two more years of a lot of European fans willing to pay a lot of money to see these guys.

At least you have friends, memories, and quite a few photos of you and Jensen to help you remember the good times. :) Also, you won't ever have to go to Blackpool again. ((hugs))

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

Well hopefully, there are a coupple of UK convention companies (Starfury is one) who might pick up the ball. They're running their first Spn con next May, and all the usual asylum gang are going to gie it a go, so let's hope they make a success of it!

[sasha-dragon.livejournal.com]

I think you've summed up exactly how I feel about the situation, it's a shame this has happened (taking our money with them) but without Rogue I would never have met you and the other ladies who i now call friends. At least there was something positive to look back on.

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

Absolutely, let's focus on the positives. And now we have the Starfury con to fall back on :)

[be-my-precious.livejournal.com]

wow.. that's freaking ridiculous! obviously, I have never been to Asylum, but i know many of you have, and to some that's all there was, because not everybody can shell out the money it takes to go to JIB. Here, we have one company doing all the conventions, and while that's nice for learning what does and what doesn't work, they're extremely expensive bc they don't let the actor's attend other conventions except SDCC. they can't even go to NY!

[heavenli24.livejournal.com]

Thing is, JIB doesn't have to be that expensive - there are people who spend much more money at Asylum cons than I spend on JIB each year.

A comparison:
JIB:
- flight from the UK to Rome: about £80 (current price for next May from London with Alitalia)
- cheapest JIB ticket (including autos with J2M): £195
- B&B near JIB: maybe £75 per person for 3 nights OR con hotel: about £300 per person for 3 nights
- photo ops with Jensen and Jared: about £90 each
- photo op with Misha: about £70
- J2 double photo op: about £185

Total = £785 (in a B&B) or £1010 (con hotel)

Asylum:
- petrol and parking at the Hilton: about £80
- cheapest Asylum ticket (no autos with J2M): £120
- autos with J2M: £110
- cheap hotel near con: maybe £75 per person for 3 nights OR con hotel: about £150 per person for 3 nights
- photo ops with Jensen and Jared: £85 each
- photo op with Misha: £70
- J2 double photo op: £165

Total = £705 (B&B/cheap hotel) or £780 (con hotel)

So, potentially, it can cost only £5 more to go to JIB and stay in a B&B than to go to Asylum and stay in the con hotel.

[be-my-precious.livejournal.com]

I never really did a comparison between the two. Just on what people have said off hand. Here, that was a little bit over what we paid for just the hotel (the cheapest one)... forget any phot-ops lol 😂 Of course, I go to the New Jersey con, and since it's right near the tunnel leading into NY City, the hotel costs are probably higher. With all the cons with creation, it's hard to even compare... except for the actual tickets, and photo-ops.

I always say that if I am suddenly blessed with money that I would go to JIB at least once. 😁

[heavenli24.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there seems to be this perception that JIB is really expensive compared to Asylum... but actually, there isn't that much difference between the two, at least not for the basics.

Of course, you can make things more expensive if you wish (I go for an Angel pass at JIB and a M&G with Jensen), but you can do them both fairly cheaply if you want to.

On the other hand, I've found Creation cons to be much more expensive than JIB (I've been to DallasCon twice and MinnCon once but with the massive increases, I refuse to spend that kind of money on a con again, even if I'm in the US when one is taking place).

Take Chicago, for example, to get pretty much the same things included as a basic Asylum or JIB ticket, plus J2M autos/photos:
- General admission weekend ticket (no autos at all): $275 (£215)
- Con hotel, double room: $280/person for 3 nights (£220)
- autos with J2 (when you could still buy them) about $150 each (£115 each)
- autos with other guests equivalent to those included in an Asylum or JIB ticket: $320 (£250)
- photo ops with Jensen and Jared: $159 each (£125 each)
- photo op with Misha: $99 (£77)
- J2 double photo op: $369 (£287)
- shipping costs for admission ticket and J2M extras purchased before the con: $55 (£43)

Total, not including flights, transport or parking = $2,036 or £1,583

[be-my-precious.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know! Creation wants to collect all the money they can. I went to the one con, and unless I go for the gold pass, which gets you premium seats and autographs from everyone, I don't believe I'm going again, especially since the pass doesn't include photos. I'm not sure when you went, but prices are even more now. I have my pick with Jensen already, so I'm somewhat mollified. But I'd love another bc since that pic I've lost 80lbs and my hair is in a nice bob instead of a bright blue mini-hawk lol.

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

I've never been to a US con, but I have heard that they can be very expensive.
It is a shame about Asylum, but we just hope now that one of the other UK convention companies can step up and fill the gap!

[be-my-precious.livejournal.com]

it is terribly expensive, and the actors aren't allowed to go to any other cons except SDCC. they don't even allow NYCC (same thing, east coast, second only to SDCC). when i found out how much it would be for someone from the uk to go to JIB including airfare, hotel, and all the con prices with a few photo ops, it was about $100 more than i paid for the hotel alone when i went to new jersey con. of course, hotels probably are more expensive where the con was held bc it's right next to the tunnel that goes to NYC, but i've never checked out places at other cons.

[herminekurotowa.livejournal.com]

Since I learned that Wayne left Rogue, I expected hearing about their bankruptcy daily. Looks like Jenny finally had the balls to do the thing Wayne and the other men were too chickenshit.

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

Yes, now the news has broken, the last few months all makes sense, doesn't it!

[fireheart13.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

:D

[sinfulslasher]

I'm trying to catch up on a week's worth of social media (thanks, RL, for being craptastic and stressful) and I only just saw the Rogue news...and immediately thought of you! I know you already kissed your money good-bye in favor of JIB but somehow, this is worse. Not that I'm surprised to see Rogue go belly-up, tbh.

Loved Mark's reaction though. We definitely haven't seen the last of him in that regard. (Selflessly hoping that Daniela will book him now...)

(Icon directed at Rogue, not you. Obviously. *g*)

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

Heehee, yes, I loved Mark's reaction too, there's one thing about the guy - he doesn't hold back!

It is a bugger, but not entirely surprising. After the debacle of Blackpool, then Wayne's departure, then the subsequent implosion at recent cons, I was more or less expecting it when the news came :(

So, yes, your icon is very appropriate!

[milly-gal.livejournal.com]

I'm just so sad that it's no more, I mean my first taste of a con was Asylum, and all those people who lost money, it's such a huge hit. *hugs* xx (Icon pointed at the situation not you)

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

It's a pain in the bum but, no one died; I'm just keeping some perspective about it.
It's just sad that I have so many wonderful memories from Rogue conventions. There's a definite 'end of an era' feel about the whole situation.

[kattrip033.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

[stellamira]

Ugh, that sucks. My only experience with Rogue Events is that I always struggled to find any useful information on their website about specific conventions. Seems like it wasn't much better behind the scenes.

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

Their website was truly naff; their organisation in general was dire. Trying to get information out of Rogue was like pulling teeth!

[jj1564.livejournal.com]

Ultimately, we all put up with this crap because our love of a certain TV show and its actors overrode our misgivings about Rogue as a company,

Exactly! I was gobsmacked by how badly organised Rogue was, and how customer unfriendly! ( Although I must say the first year I attended their Access program was great, not so much the second year).

But if not for Rogue I would never have met Jensen, which was one of the most AMAZING experiences of my life, and something that always makes me smile - and always will! And meeting so many lovely flisties in person was wonderful. So, I'm sad to see it go, especially for the fans that have lost money, but not surprised.